RONNIE JAMES DIO

The Headbanger Interview 1983

Part One

I had the extreme pleasure of interviewing RONNIE JAMES DIO who has just recently formed his own band called DIO. This is the first half of this two-part interview (part two of this interview will be featured in issue #6) in which Ronnie discusses his new band DIO as well as his roles with SABBATH, ELF, and RAINBOW. Here's what he had to say............
What made you decide to form your own band?

I wasn't in Sabbth anymore, so I had the choice to become either a plumber, a banker, or a janitor. Obviously I did what I am always going to do, that is create music. I was originally going to do a solo project within Sabbath, after my departure I still had the choice to do a solo project or put a new band together with proper people. The solo project would be amongst friends; Cozy was gonna play on it, Vinnie and Carmine were gonna play together for the first time on 1 track. I was gonna use Kerry Livgrin, I've done work on his solo Lp, and a lot of other people to make it a one off project and do things that I wasn't able to do in Sabbath. And when I left Sabbath I thought it would be kinda stupid to put a band together with just friends because I would want to continue to perform and so why not put a proper band together. Vinnie had left Sabbath as well and he was an obvious choice for me, and Jimmy Bain (who I have played with in Rainbow) was another obvious choice and he turned me on to Vivian Cambell. Jimmy was playing with Thin Lizzy at the time and Vivian was in a band called Sweet Savage who suported Lizzy. I specifically wanted a British guitarist so we brought Viv down to London, we jammed, and it was great. And that became the nucleus of the band.

You like playing with British Musicians?

Well, I prefer the way the British play. It's my own taste, but I think British musicians really go for it and play with traditional balls. And that's what I wanted because I've played with British musicians virtually all my life and I spend a lot of time over there.

Who are your favorite bands?

I like Scorpions a lot, they're a real good band and Klaus Meine is a real close friend of mine. I like Judas Priest as well because they go for one type of music and it's really "balls to the wall". I like AC/DC, I like strange people as well, I like some of the stuff Duran Duran do. I at times like The Clash for a couple tracks they've done. As you can see I have a pretty wide spectrum of likes.

Why did you change your name from Ronnie Padavona to Ronnie James Dio?

Well, Ronnie James Dio is a lot easier to remember and that's really been my name since I was about 12 yrs old and started playing in bands. I just took it for its shortness, even though it means God, I didn't have a clue at the time as what it meant but it kinda worked out very well.

I noticed you play keyboards on this solo Lp and bass on the first Elf Lp, do you play any other instruments?

I started as a trumpet player at about 5 years old and I played throughout highschool and had a scholarship to Juliard which I didn't want to do because I couldn't see myself stuck in a room with someone teaching me how to play the scales and I also didn't want to be part of an orchestra because I don't like to be one of many, I prefer to be more individualistic. I also play piano, guitar, bass, a bit of saxophone, trombone, and French horn. I play virtually anything.

How did the Medieval concept develop in your music and lyrics?

I've always been a real avid reader of history of medieval times and it really caught my imagination, all the shivilry kind of things. I thought it was magic and this was not the real world. I think that's what really attracted me, because it gives you a chance to get out of the real world because I find the real world to be pretty awful and don't think it has a lot to offer, I don't mean to be so pesimistic but we really over-pollute and over-populate ourselves and this is a way of escapism. I like to write that way.

What made you chose Vivian Cambell as your guitarist?

The most important consideration for me is that his chords and rhythm is really strong and full, and the extra added bonus that he's one of the fastest guitar players I've ever heard in my life! He plays with emotion and isn't one of those types of guitarists who has to work his solo out, I dislike that very much. It shows me a real lack of immagination to say "Let's try something else and let me take it home and work it out". With Ritchie, he would play a solo and would say, "No, I don't like it", and he would play a totally different solo, the same with Tony and Viv. Also I like Viv very much personally, and that is very important because if I don't like someone, then I don't want to work with them no matter how good they are.

What is your favorite song you've ever done?

I don't know if I could point to one really. I like "Heaven & Hell" very much, I think the one statement "The World is full of Kings and Queens Who Blind Your Eyes and Steal Your Dreams" is a valid statement about the times we live in. Its idea was, especially musically and artistically, you have young people who have dreams and goals and the sharks come and take a talented person and promise them the world and they blind your eyes and steal your dreams of success, and you find attourneys and managers and those type of people who destroy your vision because they only want your talent for their own ends. "Stargazer" is one of my favorites, "Man on the Silver Mountain" I like quite a bit, and probably "Catch the Rainbow" is also one of my favorites. A lot of the songs I've done I like very much and there are some that I dislike. I like "Gates of Babylon" as well.

How did you go about to join Sabbath after your departure in Rainbow?

Well, I was doing the same thing I was doing at the end of Black Sabbath, embarking on a solo career and having my own destiny. Tony gave me a call and said that he was leaving Sabbath and he found out that I was leaving Rainbow and thought we should get a band together. I thought it would be a good idea.

They were talked into doing a farewell tour and they came out here to the U.S. and started working on another Lp and their farewell tour and nothing was working out. I moved back here and met Tony at a party, I went to his house and he introduced me to Geezer and Bill and had a studio all set up and said "Fancy about having a play?" I said "Sure".

Tony showed me a song and said "You think you can do anything with it?" And we wrote "Chilren of the Sea", which is another one of my favorites, that night. From that evening worked very well and they were pleased to find someone who can write with some intelligence and give them credibility.

I thought about it for a while, "I don't know if I should join Sabbath, they're not really up my street but it sounds like a good career move" and it was, and it was happy for a while, but when the laughter turned into tears it was all over.

Was the reason you left Rainbow because Ritchie wanted Rainbow to become commercialized?

YES, I couldn't see myself becoming Foreigner, they do it well but I don't see the need of having another one.


How is your relationship now with Ritchie?

It's fine, it always has been. He's been a gentleman all the time, I've never said anything bad about Ritchie to the press and he's never really said anything bad about me. A lot of times people say things for you or for Ritchie and it starts to create some friction but I've never had any problems with Ritchie and we've always been very good friends and again I wouldn't have stayed in the band if I didn't like him. I did like and respect him, we've worked very well together. I saw him about 4 months ago, he comes here quite often, and we had a drink together and talked about old times. He's still a good friend... Sabbath, that's a different story.

Were you and Jimmy Bain always in close contact since your departure in Rainbow?

Not really close contact, when I would ever go to London I would always see Jimmy and we would make a date to have a drink or something. He was in a band called Wild Horses and I went to one of their gigs to see them at the Lyceum. I went on stage and sang with Jimmy and Brian Robertson, who was in the band then. I've always tried to keep close with Jimmy because he was my best friend in Rainbow and I respect him very much as a creater and he's a very nice person and a hell of a bass player, so he was my first thought when I was looking for a bass player.

At what age did you start singing?

At about nine or ten.

Did you have any lessons?

No, the trumpet playing really helped me the most because it teaches you to sing by using your diaphram and that's where most singers fall down. So I felt I didn't need anymore training than that. Also I dislike vocal teachers because I think they make you something that they would like you to be instead of letting your naturalness flow through, ofcourse you have to have the talent to be natural. In my case I was fortunate because I felt I did have the talent and I'm a very stubborn person and don't like anyone telling me what to do, and that would have also made it very difficult.

Is David Feinstein, lead guitarist of the Rods, your cousin?

Yes, he is my second cousin.

David played guitar on your first Elf Lp, have you ever thought of reforming a band with him again?

No, Never. For a start, I don't think he ever progressed from the first licks he learned, and now I understand he attempts to sing which I find to be pretty awful because we wouldn't even allow him to sing back-up because he's the only person I know who would sing sharp instead of flat. My feelings go deeper than that, I firmly believed in the 1st Elf band and I think it could have been a monsterous band at some point and I poured my whole heart and soul into that band. Time came when I heard a rumor from someone that David was gonna leave in six months while we were on the road with Uriah Heep. Being the honest person that I am, I confronted him and he told me "No, I would never leave". Six months to that day he left us high & dry and we had to find a replacement in a very short period of time and it was very difficult because he was a close part of the band, the same that we all were. But change always works out for the best and the next Elf band came the formation of Rainbow really. My feelings about him are deep because I don't like people who lie to me and if he only had the good grace to say to me "Yes, I'm gonna leave" and would of allowed me the time to do what I had to do. So Fuck him.

Did you have any success with Elf?

We had a lot of critical success but as far as monitary success....No. But then again, it was a band that needed to stay together, not like having one Lp with this group of people and two Lp's with other people. You have to keep that thread together so people know who you are. Wherever we would play, we would go over like a storm, it was a good, hard-kickin' band that could have been so much better from the first Lp, so the critical acclaim was real good.

What do you think of all the new HM bands coming from England, the U.S, and throughout Europe?

Let me take Europe first. I think it's about time people start accepting European bands throughout Germany, etc. Dutch HM bands are pretty much like the English HM bands. I think it's about time Swedish bands and musicians and even Italians get acclaim from the musical content aside from the fact that they don't speak English so people think that's not cool, but there are some really exellent musicians out there. I mean you have KROKUS, a Swiss band; TRUST, a French band; and VANDENBERG; a Dutch band and so on. Scorpions, obviously the first German band to make it as a hard rock band. You had Kraftwerk before, but that was kind of a different situation. As far as English bands go, the new breed like IRON MAIDEN, SAXON, and JUDAS PRIEST, who some people consider new but have been around forever, so it's not fair to include them. Those kind of bands are carrying on the tradition, playing well and really going for it. DEF LEPPARD, another good band, who will become more commercial oriented than bands like Saxon and Maiden, but it's still good to see the success still there.

American bands, I find the greatest influx HM is coming from L.A. My only disappointment is that they all look exactly alike and seem to play exactly alike and you really can't tell the players apart without a scorecard, and that annoys me very much. They have made some in roads in England in the press but I think when they go to England to play they'll find it's a whole different ball game. There's a band that I'm working with called ROUGH CUTT who I find to be the best of the lot because they're a lot more melodic, they may dress slightly the same, but the singer is great, they have a guitarist who's gonna be a big, big star someday, phenomenal player! Paul Shortino, the singer, reminds me of myself when I was his age and that's why I gravitated toward them. He's very fortunate to have all my years of experience to show him how to do these things, but there are people who wouldn't accept that kind of criticism, but Paul does because he realizes it's for his benefit. He's the type of guy who is such a good singer that he wouldn't respect anyone else unless the guy is as good a singer as he is, so that's nice for Paul. They are a good band and I like them very much because they're different. The others... RATT are like everyone else. MOTLEY CRUE; I must say that Tommy Lee is a great drummer and I think Nikki Sixx writes really good anthem kind of songs that kids could get into. Collectively as a band, they go for it and I hope they have success, they are basically pretty nice people. The guys in W.A.S.P. aren't bad, Chris is a bit strange, but they try and I wish them all success. It's just that they all seem the same to me. There's a band out here that reminds me a little bit like Def Leppard called WHITE SISTER who I think if they keep it together might have a chance because they're all very young, but they do it well. But I like what's going on out here and I try to make it to the clubs to see what's happening because it's important to keep your finger on the pulse. You have to know what's going on, these people are your competition as well as having original and new ideas. Too many people lock themselves in a room and say "I'm a big star, I don't want to know about that", and I think that's stupid.

You have produced your debut Lp and you are now producing the ROUGH CUTT Lp, do you plan to produce any other Lp's in the future?

I'd like to, it depends on what my time schedule allows, I'm gonna be on the road for a while this year. I think I've learned a lot over the years about production and I think this Lp shows that I am well able to do it. I think that there are a lot of people out there who should come to me and let me give them a hand. I like to work with musicians, I think I've got something to say and I think I'm a good handler with people. The most important thing about production beside having a good ear is that you're able to have a rapport with the people you're working with, if they don't respect you, then you won't get anything out of it. I'll chose it sparingly, my career comes first.

How did you and your wife Wendy come about in managing ROUGH CUTT?

It's a strange story, I met the drummer, David Alford, in Atlanta when I was with Sabbath. He was back stage and came up and said to me, "Man, I want to talk to you, I just wanted to tell you that I'm a drummer and I'm on my way to N.Y. and I want to make it". I said "You're going the wrong direction my friend; go to L.A." He said "Really, O.K man, I'll do that". About six months later I went to a thing called "The Carmine Appice Drum-off" in Griffith Park and he was there and said to me "Man, here I am but I can't get nothin' happening, can't find no musicians". I told him, "Go to the Valley, the Valley is a HM place, you'll find some good musicians there". He did it and he kept in contact with me and found Paul, the singer, Jake, the guitar player who is now playing with Ozzy, a bass player who is with Ratt now, and a keyboardist who was playing with Glenn Hughes for a while. He then brought me a tape of Paul and I thought it was great. Wendy and I went down to hear the band play at S.I.R. and we thought the band were really exellent for a band who have not been together for very long. So we took them on and the rest is this much history.


Part Two

Here is the conclusion of the RONNIE JAMES DIO Interview which was featured in last issue. The interview took place in July of this year when Ronnie had just completed his fantastic debut Lp "Holy Diver". At this moment Ronnie is doing a few shows here in So. Cal. supporting AEROSMITH, in which he will play material off his solo Lp as well as old RAINBOW and SABBATH material. Without further delay, let's get on with part II of the interview.
How did you come up with the album cover concept for "Holy Diver"?

The "Holy Diver" concept was Wendy's idea, she envisioned most of it. We just employed an artist to give us a rendering and had someone do the oil painting.

How has your solo project and new band turned out and do you plan to keep the band "Dio" permanent?

I'd very much like to keep it permanent, but nothing is ever really permanent. I like the players very much and I think the Lp speaks for itself. I think for a band who has never really played together before, and when we first played together it was magic; exactly right. Jimmy gives Vinnie the space to do what he wants to do and Jimmy lays it down very heavily. Viv, I can't say enough about him! He's really gonna be a big star and monsterous guitar hero. I want to keep this band together. "Dio" will be myself and the other people who are playing on the Lp. It really makes no sence to change if you're going for a career. RAINBOW is a perfect example of "who knows who's gonna be in the band next week?". Fans don't want to know about that, they want to know who is the guitarist, drummer, bass player, and singer. I have no plans to change at all, I only hope it works out, if it does; they'll stay, if it doesn't; they won't.

Where would you say is your favorite place to play?

I have a few favorite places, England I like to play very much because the fans are very knowlegable, they're well into music and they're hard to please; and I like that. My 2nd favorite place is probably Japan. Japan has always been a great market for us, especially RAINBOW. We went to Japan once with SABBATH and it was a big disappointment to me. I just don't think that the band as a whole had the charisma to capture the Japanese imagination in the way RAINBOW did or the way "Dio" will. I like Australia very much, it's kind of like a cross between Britain and America, so that makes it all happen. I like to play Germany sometimes, I especially like to play Frankfurt because it's like playing in America because there's a big Army base there and everybody comes to the shows in America and every time I go there I see people from my home town. Obviously I like to play America, it's my home so I didn't even mention it 1st. But I think my favorite place is Britain.

Who are your influences as far as musicians and singers?

I've always liked Paul Rogers a lot, I don't think he's got much of a range but he's got a lot of emotion. Paul McCartney I've always been in love with because everything he does is different, he's got so many voices he wears. I used to really love Rod Stewart in the old days when he was with Beck. Now that he's become "Do You Think I'm Sexy" I'm not really knocked out by him but he is a great singer. He's a very under-rated singer because I think his image has overpowered what a good singer he really is. The best singer in the world has got to be Stevie Wonder, he never does anything wrong, never sharp never flat, everything he does has got so much emotion to it. The singer who I've always liked the best, who is dead now, is Donny Hathaway, he sang a lot like Stevie Wonder and was a great composer with a magical voice. As you can see I've got a lot of different influences, there's a lot of black kind of influence. I know Otis was Paul Rogers favorite singer and Sam Cooke was Rods favorite singer. I guess it all gets down to the fact that I like singers with a lot of emotion and soul, and those are usually black singers. So if you can take that idea of soul and emotion and take it into the hard rock context it works, and that's what I've done all my career and what most people don't do.

Roger Glover produced the first ELF Lp, How did you come in contact with him?

We were auditioning for CBS for the first ELF Lp, we auditioned for Clive Davis and Roger and Ian Paice were in N.Y. at the time booked by the agency ATI (American Talent International) and the manager was working at ATI and invited Roger and Ian into the studio for a listen and they liked us and wanted to produce the Lp. From there we did a lot of tours with DEEP PURPLE because they liked the band, and they played the material to Jon Lord and Ritchie.

Is that how you came in contact with Ritchie Blackmore?

Yeah, from doing the tours. Ritchie often goes out in the audience to watch the warm-up band and he used to go out every night for us. I hardly ever talked to Ritchie then, I guess I was like every one else; relativly in awe of him, although I'm never really in awe of anybody. I saw in Ritchie a very private person so when I would see him it would just be a "hello" and that was it. I didn't really speak to him until the 2nd tour we did with them. I was in the dressing room one night after doing a show and I didn't think I did a very good job that night, Ritchie walked in the room as he was ready to go on stage and he said to me "You're a brilliant singer" and I said "Thank You" and he walked off. After that he would call me up and say "Fancy I offer you a drink Tonight?". We would go out to a club, Ritchie would bring his guitar and we would get up and jam. And we got very close. Then he called me one day when we were on the road and said "I want to cut a single, a song called "Black Sheep of the Family" and I said "Sure, I like the song a lot". Again, we both came together on attitude, we were both great lovers of Bach. We then went into the studio and cut the track and he said "That was so good, we got to do a "B" side for a single now".

So we were in Minniappolis at the time still doing the tour. He called me and said "Come to my hotel, I've got this riff for a song that we should use for the "B" side". He played it for me and said "What do you think?" I replied "That's good". He said "Alright we'll go into the studio tomorrow". I said "Tomorrow? I haven't even written the song". He said "Can't you write it tonight?" I said "Sure". So I stayed up till 8:00 A.M the next morning. We went into the studio and he didn't know what I was gonna do, he finished the backing track and said "O.K, your turn". They all went into the control room, I sang it one time and then there was silence, I thought to myself "I guess it didn't work out". Ritchie then came up to me and said "That was absolutely amazing, that's the one". I said "You gotta let me try it again", and I did it a couple more times and we decided the first one was the one. That was kind of my 'Baptism in Fire', I mean trying to write a song in one night and sing it to please this huge star straight away. About 2 months later we were in Germany doing a tour with them and he came up to me just before they went on stage and said "I'm quitting Purple, would you like to put a band together with me?" I said "Yes!". He went into Purple's dressing room and said I'm leaving tomorrow. They did the show and he never looked backward, that was one thing he taught me to do; if you make a decission then stick to it. And that is how that all happened!

Did you ever release that single?

It was never a single, it became an album after that.

What was the name of that song?

Sixteenth Century Greensleeves.

Do you fell you've contributed a lot to HM music?

Yeah, I think so, especially as a vocalist. I think there's a lot of people who try to do what I do, and that's real nice flattery. I think I've also contributed a lot as far as writing goes, especially with RAINBOW. I think Ritchie and I blazed a few paths and made people open up there minds a little to something they thought couldn't be done but can be done. Probably the same with SABBATH because Sabbath really became an extention of what I've always done, the Sabbath Lp's really sounded a lot more like Rainbow than early Sabbath and I think that was because of my influence. I hope I have contibuted and I hope people respect me for what I've contributed, I hope they respect me most of all for liking me as a person, that's the most important thing to me. I spend a lot of time outside stage doors signing autographs whether it be in the rain, snow, or heat because those are the people I'm most concerned about, they're the people who buy my product and allow me to be where I am. I never sherk my duty, most of the people I've been in bands with have done that. Ritchie and Tony are perfect examples - they couldn't be bothered to sign an autograph and that's stupid I think If that's their attitude; fine but not for me, it's the fans that I care about.

Many people believe that BLACK SABBATH and Ritchie Blackmore attributed a lot to Black Magic and Demonology, did you have any part of this or was it all a hoax?

Ritchie and I were very involved in White Magic, I never touch Black Magic - it's a bad scene. We used to do a lot of seances and had a lot of strange things happen to us. We learned a lot about it, what not to touch and what to touch. When I joined BLACK SABBATH they pretty much got out of that end of the publicity. I didn't find them to be satanists at all. We all knew a lot about the magical end of it so we had a good rapport. As far as being satanists, I guess everyone will have to draw their own conclusion to what we are. I never talk about religion and politics and I find there's no conclusion to any of it. We all have a lot of knowledge about the workings of satanic magic and White Magic.

What can we expect in the future for RONNIE JAMES DIO?

Well you'll see another Lp for sure. We've done two videos in London, "Holy Diver" and "Rainbow In The Dark". We'll tour extensively and the next Lp will be really magic because it will be a band who have gone out and played for a change and we'll know ourselves and know eachother, the only way to do that is to play together a lot. I was astounded to how well this Lp came out with guys who have not really played together. I'm really looking forward to the next Lp and I don't often look forward to Lp's, I think the live performance is where it begins and ends. But I am looking forward to the next album because this one was a joy to make and was the most pleasant Lp I've ever done in my life. And the next Lp I hope will even be more pleasant because the music will be better. Also, like I said before, I'd like to produce some other things as well. That's what's in the works for me personally and the band itself.

I know that a lot of stuff has gone on and been said since your departure with SABBATH. Is there anything you would like to add to clarify what has happened?

Well I'll put it this way, this is what happened. We got to the point where personally we started not to get along anymore, I hope it was not because of me. Again, I wish they were here to refute what I'm saying, it's easy for me to tell you what I think but if they were here I would say the same thing to you. At the end of the day they got very "Paranoid", the perfect word for the perfect song for them, at the fact that they thought I was trying to take control over the band. Maybe I can see where they might think that; because when you're dealing with people who have no character and are very weak then obviously the strong person is gonna take over, I wasn't trying to take over, it's just that someone had to make a decission. Tony was supposed to be the leader of the band but he never took the bull by the horn, he never did anything but look up his own ass and care about himself. Geezer, who was my best friend in the band, decided at the end of the day that Tony was more important to him than the friendship that we had gotten together. I guess because they grew up together, they're both British - and for all those reasons they went their own way and I went mine.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

I've enjoyed all the things I've done - from ELF to RAINBOW to BLACK SABBATH. I enjoyed the things very much in Sabbath. I'm a bit disappointed that we couldn't shake hands and be gentlemens at the end of it. I've enjoyed all the things I've done, but I never look backward, I'll never look over my shoulder and say "God, I wish I could be back in that band again" because life isn't like that. I'm happy for a change, I've got my own destiny control, I've got people who I like around me, great musicians, two record companies that believe very strongly in me (Warner and Phonogram). And I'm just really pleased that I can go out and play again and do things I always do and communicate to people through my music and through speaking with them. I'm just pleased.


© The Headbanger Magazine no 5 & 6 - 1983