Chuck Burgi Special Interview with Chuck Burgi Astonished by the causal relationship between Joe Lynn Turner's demo production and the collapse of the Rainbow...!? What are your thoughts on returning to RAINBOW? When RAINBOW disbanded in '84, I was devastated. I was genuinely angry. Ritchie was my hero, and when I got the chance to play with him, I sincerely hoped it would last for at least a few years. In reality, though, it was only one year... so I was thrilled this time around. I had been keeping busy playing tons of gigs with bands around the New York area, but things just lined up perfectly because my schedule happened to be a bit light during the latter half of '95. What makes me happy is that Ritchie's playing is magnificent. He has his off days, of course, but on this tour, the good days far outnumber them. I don't think he's ever been this consistently great before. Seeing that he still pours so much passion into live performances gets me really excited. I wish I could have participated in the recording sessions too, but since I joined the band just two weeks before the tour started, there wasn't much time to learn the songs... On this record, some of the songs themselves are among the absolute finest in RAINBOW's history, and his playing is the best it's ever been. Listening to the tapes from the European shows blew my mind. I was like, "Is this really Ritchie?! I've never heard him play this incredibly before!" I definitely want to play drums on the next album. We could all build the tracks together... Even on this tour, whenever Ritchie felt like it, we would jam for about 30 minutes during soundcheck and try out all kinds of ideas. Word has it that you are Ritchie's favorite drummer. He said so himself. That's wonderful to hear. When he's satisfied, it makes me incredibly happy too. He's a man of very few words, so you often don't find out how he feels until a problem arises. When I first started working with him, I couldn't be entirely sure if he was pleased with my work. Eventually, once we started playing live shows, he seemed to notice that I was listening intently and following his playing with my ears, which opened the door for us to jam together. A few times after walking off stage, he told me, "Your playing tonight was great," and from that point on, I finally began to believe that he was genuinely enjoying my drumming. He has been very kind, completely honest, and supportive of me. Personally, from that period up until now, I've built up my own confidence by playing with various phenomenal musicians, but knowing that he still welcomes my drumming makes me incredibly happy regardless. I feel there is something special between him and me. We both want to play rock 'n' roll a certain way, with an attitude that leans toward jazz... it's a bit daring, but that's how I want to play, and I think he wants that too. He absolutely loathes repeating the exact same thing. I think he finds joy in those unexpected moments of communication. In jazz, there's a call-and-response dynamic, which I picked up fairly early on, but few rock musicians actually let you utilize it. I know plenty of guitarists who belong to the "just shut up and keep the time!" school of thought. They don't want any musical dialogue with the drummer. But Ritchie genuinely enjoys it. We've never explicitly talked about it (laughs), but when we play like that, he'll look back at me with a big grin. Even on this tour, while the other band members are still caught off guard by a jam he instigates, I'm the only one right there playing right along with him... I truly love that side of Ritchie. I'm thrilled to hear that he's pleased. I want him to feel comfortable on tour, so I respect his privacy and barely talk to him... I can usually tell when he dislikes something, but it's harder to be certain when he loves it. I'm just really glad. Do you know John O'Reilly personally? No, I don't know him. How did you feel about an unfamiliar drummer recording the album with RAINBOW? That's a good question. When I heard that RAINBOW was reforming, I was hoping Ritchie might give me a call. At the same time, knowing Ritchie, I figured he might want to put together an entirely new lineup. Because I respected his constant drive for "something new," I wasn't surprised when the call didn't come right away. The only thing I thought to myself was, "I hope the guy is good." One thing I've learned about Ritchie is to "expect the unexpected" (laughs), and I had my own work to look after anyway. I've worked extensively with former members of RAINBOW—like Roger Glover's Mask project, Joe's (Joe Lynn Turner) solo work, and Dave Rosenthal's Red Dawn — so working with Ritchie again felt completely natural to me. The reason he didn't call me for the album... I suppose it just came down to finding a drummer local to Long Island, where Ritchie lives, who could keep solid time. I think John did a very good job on that album. Both in terms of timing and feel. If it had been me, I might have made it a bit more exciting, but that's just a matter of personal perspective... Initially, looking at the band's lineup, a lot of fans assumed that Joe Lynn Turner would eventually join the ranks (laughs). That makes total sense. After all, both John and Greg (Smith) had been touring and playing live with Joey for a long time. If that happened, people thought, "Hey, Chuck Burgi and Dave Rosenthal are bound to come back next!" (laughs). Hahaha. Back during the Red Dawn days, a lot of fans were fully expecting Joe to join that project too. I get it. When Dave first played me the demos, I immediately said, "Hey, isn't that Joey?!" The voice sounded incredibly similar to Joe's, and even his look was similar. Dave really loved RAINBOW... and the Red Dawn album... It made perfect sense that it sounded very RAINBOW-like. After all, we still work together even now. Joey makes a good living singing commercial jingles in NY, I have my commercial gigs, I work with Greg, and Greg works with Joey... It's all a bit surreal. How are things with BLUE ÖYSTER CULT? Oh, they actually called me when I was over in Europe. They asked if I'd be interested in working with them again. I first crossed paths with them back in '83 during a RAINBOW tour. Playing with that band is a blast. I wouldn't say it's exactly my personal taste in music, but as a job, it's top-notch. Their live gigs are similar to RAINBOW in that anything can happen on stage on any given night. Though I turned down their offer this time, I absolutely want to keep working with them in the future. They usually gig three or four days a week and spend the rest of the time at home, which fits my schedule beautifully. It lets me do live shows while maintaining other work back in NY. We've had a great working relationship over the last few years. They play everywhere, from small clubs of about 500 people to 2,000-seat theaters, and in the summer of '95, I actually brought Greg in to play with them. BÖC still has a massive fanbase... why they can't land a new record deal is beyond me. We recorded eight new tracks together, and some of them were stellar, but they have their own way of doing business... I don't know why they don't handle it better, but that's their issue. Well, I'm a freelancer, so when there's no work with RAINBOW, I'll happily work with them again, and I also want to make a new record with RED DAWN. After RAINBOW split up, you played in Joe Lynn Turner's band, worked with Meat Loaf, and so on... Right when RAINBOW dissolved, Joey and I started working on demos. It took much longer than anticipated, but we finally wrapped them up in '85. I toured with him for the rest of that year and joined MEAT LOAF after that. I think I stayed for about five years. It was fantastic. The only recording we did was that live show at Wembley during my first year, though. While I was with MEAT LOAF, I also formed a band called SKULL with the guitarist, Bob Kulick. We put out an album... but those guys actually used our demo tracks! I had already left the band by the time they secured the record deal, but they went ahead and turned the raw demos I played on into the actual record! I definitely hold a grudge against Bobby (Bob) for that. After that... MEAT LOAF was constantly on the road, which kept me busy, but when Meat Loaf himself took an extended break from touring, I started working with BÖC. Jim Steinman didn't really want to use us for the studio recordings anyway. Working with BÖC is incredibly laid-back. After about three years with them, I did RED DAWN... Around that time, I made a conscious effort to stay grounded in NY, and I've been doing commercial TV work as well. What was the reason Joe didn't participate in RED DAWN? Ah... that's a good question. I wonder why? It was probably David's (Rosenthal) executive decision... Personally, I really wanted to work with Joey. But that was David's project... I suppose he felt that having Joey onboard would mean compromising too much of his own vision. David wanted to establish himself as the undisputed leader of the band, which is incredibly hard to do when someone with a personality as massive as Joe's is around. Or perhaps it was just easier to maintain business control without a high-profile name like Joey. I would have loved to work with him, though. Given that the West Coast-based MOTHERS ARMY came together, you'd think RED DAWN would have been a walk in the park for Joe... Ah, MOTHERS ARMY. I think Joey kept in close contact with Jeff Watson. We actually toured with NIGHT RANGER once as the backing band for Joey’s solo album. I wanted to work with them too, but since they're based on the West Coast, it was tough... Joey kept at it, though, and it just happened to work out. I was tied up with BÖC tours, but I'd love to play with Joey again. That said, I don't think MOTHERS ARMY has actually done any live concerts together. Those types of projects only materialize when absolutely everyone happens to be free. RED DAWN was the same way; even after the album came out, I was touring with BÖC and Greg was under contract with Alice Cooper... Ultimately, most players become known to the world as someone's sideman. I've been a sideman my entire career, but even if you stick with one band, you eventually find yourself wanting to branch out into other projects. I stayed in a single musical situation for quite a while with MEAT LOAF. By the end, that band had reached an incredibly high level. But it wasn't like one of those "bands you start with your high school buddies"... RAINBOW put the spotlight on so many sidemen, and I'm certainly one of them. The fact that Ritchie loves change is a blessing for many musicians. He introduces new talent to the world. Personally, I find it hard to stay tied down to just one band; it's just my nature. It might be a hard concept for Japanese fans to understand, but that's just how it is. Sure, some people find comfort in staying with one band forever, and even I wanted RAINBOW to keep going indefinitely back in '84. How were things in BALANCE before you joined RAINBOW? That was a strange band. They found success with their first album, but I wasn't part of it. Bob Kulick was on guitar, but it was essentially a gathering of NY session musicians. The singer and keyboardist were making a killing doing TV and radio commercials. When they were putting together their second record, a friend suggested I reach out to Bob, which is how I got the gig. To be honest, it was a rough gig. The pay was lousy too. Because the singer and keyboardist were so anchored to their lucrative commercial gigs, we were completely at their mercy and couldn't even go on tour. It was a mere project. That's exactly why I was so ecstatic when I got into RAINBOW. When Joe Lynn Turner recorded the demos for his solo project back in '83, you and Bob Kulick were involved, correct? Didn't Ritchie find out about those sessions, get furious that Joe was looking elsewhere, and say "If that's Joe's attitude, I'm going back to DEEP PURPLE," ultimately leading to RAINBOW’s disbandment? What?! Wow... I've never actually spoken with him about that... The first demos I tracked with Joey were indeed recorded right around late December of 1983 into early January. Naturally, Ritchie must have caught wind of it. But I had absolutely no intention of leaving RAINBOW. I just wanted to keep working with Joey... and I figured Joey just wanted to get some of his own songs on tape for the time being. They were tracks leaning in a much funkier direction than RAINBOW. To me, it was just a side project to do during our downtime... Look, I had just joined RAINBOW, I had zero desire to quit! Joey had been at it for three years, so maybe he was getting a little burned out... but if I had known back then that making those demos would provoke Ritchie's wrath and put RAINBOW in jeopardy, I would have never touched those sessions! To think that my eagerness to record with Joe might have ended RAINBOW when I wanted it to last... Granted, I always figured Ritchie would eventually reform DEEP PURPLE. After all, the money they were offering him was astronomical. But... I cherished that band. I didn't want it to end. When RAINBOW went on hiatus, I didn't fully comprehend the combination of factors at play, and it's all in the past now... but what you just said could very well be a major piece of the puzzle. Joey's demos turned out incredibly well and sounded very reminiscent of RAINBOW... so it might have deeply rubbed Ritchie the wrong way. I just thought, "Hey, making some demos together sounds like a fun idea," but looking back, Bruce Payne was also involved in the project... yeah, right during that break, right before Ritchie made the final call to reform DEEP PURPLE... Oh, man, that sounds exactly like him! In the ten years since, whenever I've been asked about RAINBOW's breakup in interviews, I never connected the dots until now. It really might have been a critical factor... © BURRN Magazine no 2 - February 1996